Project 253L Minesweepers

If you want to ask or find any info regarding any Polish ship, post it here. All the pictures, all the data goes here.

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bjw824
Posty: 7
Rejestracja: 2014-03-13, 17:14

Project 253L Minesweepers

Post autor: bjw824 »

Hello to all,
Does anyone please have any photos of, or info about any of this class of ship that served in the Polish Navy?
ORP Kormoran, Jaskolka, Albatross, Orlik, Kondor, Czapla, Kania, Krogulec and Jastrzab.
Apart from Jaskolka, do any more still survive?
I have seen the photos of Jaskolka that are in the Mineweepers Section, bow view, stern view and starboard side, and I would dearly like to see any taken of the port side.
Very best regards
bjw
bjw824
Posty: 7
Rejestracja: 2014-03-13, 17:14

Re: Project 253L Minesweepers

Post autor: bjw824 »

Witam wszystkich,
Czy ktoś proszę mamy żadnych zdjęć lub informacji o którymkolwiek z tej klasy statku, który służył w Marynarce Wojennej?
ORP Kormoran, Jaskółka, Albatross, Orlik, Kondor, Czapla, Kania, Krogulec i Jastrząb.
Oprócz Jaskolka, nie więcej jednak przetrwa?
Widziałem zdjęcia z Jaskolka, które są w Mineweepers sekcji, widok, rufowy widok i prawą burtę łuk, a ja szczerze chciałbym zobaczyć wszelkie podjęte z lewej burty.
Bardzo pozdrawiam
BJW
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SmokEustachy
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Re: Project 253L Minesweepers

Post autor: SmokEustachy »

You will find photos by typing "trałowiec" ORP <name of ship> "zdjęcie" on google
For exemple:
http://www.graptolite.net/Facta_Nautica/PMW/Orlik.html
bjw824
Posty: 7
Rejestracja: 2014-03-13, 17:14

Re: Project 253L Minesweepers

Post autor: bjw824 »

Hello,
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I have previously entered that site and it has yielded some useful details but it does not answer my construction questions. I know that Kur's appearance has been changed since she was Jaskolka but the basic hull and superstructure is still there.
I need to see photos of her port side, or answers from someone that has, to answer the following questions:
1. Are there two watertight doors on the superstructure as on the starboard side or three?
2. Is there a watertight door on the port side of the Charthouse as there is on the starboard side?
3. Are engine-room skylights present alongside the funnel to match the starboard side. And lastly 4. Are there three portholes of the charthouse front face or five?
No accurate plans of a 253 appear to exist - which is very strange - and information about these ships in Polish service is very sketchy, while photos are very rare.
Best regards
bjw

Witaj,
Dziękujemy za poświęcenie czasu na odpowiedź. Miałem wcześniej wszedł ten teren i to przyniosło kilka przydatnych szczegółów, ale to nie jest odpowiedź na moje pytania budowlanych. Wiem, że wygląd Kur została zmieniona, ponieważ była Jaskółka ale podstawowy kadłub i nadbudówki jest nadal.
Muszę zobaczyć zdjęcia z jej strony portu, ani odpowiedzi od kogoś, że ma, aby odpowiedzieć na następujące pytania:
1. Są tam dwie wodoszczelne drzwi na konstrukcji nośnej, jak na prawej burcie lub trzy?
2. Czy jest wodoszczelne drzwi od strony portu Charthouse jak jest na prawej burcie?
3. Są świetliki maszynowni obecne obok leja, aby dopasować prawą burtę. I wreszcie 4. Są tam trzy iluminatory z charthouse twarzy przednim lub pięciu?
Brak dokładnych planów na 253 wydaje się istnieć - co jest bardzo dziwne - i informacje o tych statków w polskiej służbie jest bardzo pobieżne, a zdjęcia są bardzo rzadkie.
Z poważaniem
bjw
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pothkan
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Re: Project 253L Minesweepers

Post autor: pothkan »

Don't bother with Google English > Polish translation. It's ridiculously incomprehensible. And most of us here are familiar with English (at least I suppose so?).

I don't know if it will help, but here you can find quite a lot of this type photos, unfortunately (?) in Soviet colours.
http://forums.airbase.ru/2006/11/t52121 ... nniki.html (project 253)
http://forums.airbase.ru/2008/11/t64531 ... nniki.html (project 255)
http://forums.airbase.ru/1970/01/tpc657 ... sa-41.html (Soviet minesweepers, general topic)

Small plan of project 253L (from О. Коробков, С. Титушкин, Тральщики в отечественном флоте, Ч. 1: 1905-1945 гг., 2004)
Załączniki
253l.gif
253l.gif (105.21 KiB) Przejrzano 9355 razy
Ostatnio zmieniony 2014-03-17, 16:49 przez pothkan, łącznie zmieniany 1 raz.
bjw824
Posty: 7
Rejestracja: 2014-03-13, 17:14

Re: Project 253L Minesweepers

Post autor: bjw824 »

Hello Pothkan,
Sorry for the use of Google, I thought it might help :oops:
Thank you for your reply.
I do not pretend to be an expert, all my information has been compiled from the internet and libraries, but to the best of my knowledge no accurate drawing of a 253L has so far been published
I know of airbase.ru and it is a very informative site, however as you say, nearly all are Soviet vessels and most of the photos show 255s.
The posts seem to indicate a lack of drawings of 255s as well
I am trying to establish the correct appearance of a Polish 253L in order that accurate plans can be drawn up.
This whole subject needs to be cleared up as there are even differences between Soviet 253Ls and Polish ones.
All the Polish vessels appear to have had 5 portholes on the Charthouse front face. Some Soviet ones also had 5 but most had 3.
All drawings so far published show a completely incorrect hull profile below the waterline as you can see by comparing drawings in these links to photos of the Gydnia vessel. On some, as drawn the draught is over 3 meters, over double the actual draught of 1.48 metres. Most also depict an incorrect cross-section of engine-room casing and arrangement of skylights with lack of engine-room access doors while the position and number of watertight doors on the superstructure has not yet been established.
On some of the drawings, the forward watertightdoor as drawn (which I believe was the entry to the Radio Room) is impossible to open as it is shown fouling the access ladder to the forecastle!
If I knew how to post attachments, I could show you! :?
It would appear that all Polish 253s had, as stated, 5 portholes on the Charthouse front face, a square stern, a different type of MS winch and a full length rubbing strake on the waterline.
I know that obviously these ships served in a time-frame where information on military equipment was restricted but it is not logical as there is no lack of accurate drawings, information or photos of 254s, vessels at first serving in the same time frame and replacing 253s.
There must be more photos out there somewhere.
Maybe someone is writing a book (hopefully :-) ) and hoarding them!
Once again thanks and best regards
bjw
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pothkan
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Re: Project 253L Minesweepers

Post autor: pothkan »

bjw824 pisze:If I knew how to post attachments, I could show you! :?
Dodaj załącznik, like here:
dzal.gif
dzal.gif (58.39 KiB) Przejrzano 9332 razy
bjw824 pisze:I know that obviously these ships served in a time-frame where information on military equipment was restricted but it is not logical as there is no lack of accurate drawings, information or photos of 254s, vessels at first serving in the same time frame and replacing 253s.
Unfortunately 1945-1956 period is, at least in my opinion, a most unknown and slightly researched period in history of our navy. It might change in future, but that is the state today. 254s are better known both because they came into service after 1956, and were built in Poland.

I wish I could be more helpful, but I'm rather into general naval history than such "modelling" details.

By the way, in 1983 a paperboard model of ORP Kormoran with some drawings was published by "Mały Modelarz". There is a 4 MB scanned PDF file available on web.
bjw824
Posty: 7
Rejestracja: 2014-03-13, 17:14

Re: Project 253L Minesweepers

Post autor: bjw824 »

Note the shape of the bow compared with the drawing you posted earlier and also the waterline. These ships had nearly flat bottoms
Note the shape of the bow compared with the drawing you posted earlier and also the waterline. These ships had nearly flat bottoms
51.jpg (435.14 KiB) Przejrzano 9315 razy
Hello Pothkan,
Thank you. I have this model and also the May 1960 magazine Modelarz in which was a plan used as the source of the model design.
It was this model that started me on my search!
I have sent a PM to the member that posted photos of Kur on another thread and asked him if he has the photos that I am looking for.
Please see the attached photo of an unknown Polish 253 being broken-up. In addition to my photo caption, note also the 5 portholes on the Charthouse front face
Very best regards
bjw
bjw824
Posty: 7
Rejestracja: 2014-03-13, 17:14

Re: Project 253L Minesweepers

Post autor: bjw824 »

Another photo of the same vessel. The hull lines are quite distinct
Załączniki
Note the open engine room access doors and engine room casing skylights
Note the open engine room access doors and engine room casing skylights
52.jpg (386.55 KiB) Przejrzano 9315 razy
bjw824
Posty: 7
Rejestracja: 2014-03-13, 17:14

Re: Project 253L Minesweepers

Post autor: bjw824 »

The last photo of today. A wealth of detail here and three superstructure doors of the strengthened type can be ascertained.
Does anybody what ship this is?
Załączniki
An unkown 253 at sea, manning the side
An unkown 253 at sea, manning the side
Unk.JPG (278.69 KiB) Przejrzano 9313 razy
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