Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Okręty Wojenne lat 1905-1945

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MacGreg
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Re: Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Post autor: MacGreg »

To juz nie jest kolejna zagadka, bo nie znam na nia odpowiedzi, ale czy ktos wie dlaczego Niemcy walczyli pod Skagerrakiem, a Anglicy pod Jutlandia? :co:
'There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!' - Vice Admiral Sir David Beatty
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Colonel
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Re: Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Post autor: Colonel »

Bo Niemcy - naród morski walczyli na morzu, a Angole... szczury lądowe...:D
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MacGreg
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Re: Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Post autor: MacGreg »

Tym razem zagadka fotograficzna.

Co to za okret ?
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Peperon
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Re: Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Post autor: Peperon »

Konkretnej nazwy nie wymienię.
Jednak na pewno jest to któryś z pary Pennsylvania / Arizona.
Ludzkość dzieli się na trzy części.
Żywych, zmarłych i tych co na morzu.
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MacGreg
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Re: Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Post autor: MacGreg »

Brawo :brawo:
Szybka swietna odpowiedz.
Skad ta pewnosc. czy rozpoaznales kogos z zalogi :o
United States Marines and Sailors posing on unidentified ship (likely either the USS Pennsylvania or USS Arizona), in 1918. (National World War I Museum, Kansas City, Missouri, USA) #
Wobec tego druga zagadka chyba troche tudniejsza.

Pytanie wciaz to samo.

Co to za okret? Nie ten na drugim planie. Chodzi o ten ktorego dziala sa widoczne na pierwszym planie?
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MiKo
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Re: Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Post autor: MiKo »

QE
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MacGreg
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Re: Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Post autor: MacGreg »

Doskonale. :brawo:
Na pewno poznales po kocie maskotce okretu, ktorego to kota imie jest dotychczas nieznane.

Cos za latwe te zagadki.
Musze wymyslec cos bardziej podchwytliwego. :diabel:

Panowie moze wy macie cos trudniejszego :co:
'There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!' - Vice Admiral Sir David Beatty
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Peperon
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Re: Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Post autor: Peperon »

MacGreg pisze:Brawo :brawo:
Szybka swietna odpowiedz.
Skad ta pewnosc. czy rozpoaznales kogos z zalogi :o ...
Wujka Sama :lol:
A poważniej to zwróć uwagę, że Penny i Arizona były jedynymi pancernikami z dwunastoma armatami 356 mm, które były w wieżach z "wypukłymi" dachami. Pozostałe miały dachy wież płaskie. ;)
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Ludzkość dzieli się na trzy części.
Żywych, zmarłych i tych co na morzu.
PawBur
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Re: Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Post autor: PawBur »

Takie offowe pytanie, bo są tu osoby, które dużo wiedzą o materiałach i technologii - czy takie posadzenie tylu ludzi na lufie nie jest szkodliwe?
jogi balboa
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Re: Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Post autor: jogi balboa »

Naliczyłem 30 ludzi na lufce, czyli jeżeli przeciętna masa ludzi wynosi 80kg daje nam 2,4 tony, czyli mniej więcej 2% masy armaty. Ciężar rozłożony równomiernie na całej długości lufy, to tak jakbyś się przykrył kocykiem.
Bardziej by mnie martwił czarny kot :wink:
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Peperon
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Re: Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Post autor: Peperon »

Jaki on tam czarny. Przy powiększeniu wyraźnie widać na nim paski.
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Ludzkość dzieli się na trzy części.
Żywych, zmarłych i tych co na morzu.
jogi balboa
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Re: Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Post autor: jogi balboa »

A słyszałeś o Niezatapialnym Samie?
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Kpt.G
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Re: Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Post autor: Kpt.G »

A to nie był Kot z Bismarcka? :|
"Jesteś UPIERDLIWY!" Nie.. ja jestem Ciekawy i drążę niektóre interesujące mnie tematy.. a że zadaję dużo pytań? "Kto pyta nie błądzi" głosi powiedzenie. ;)
Jakże daleko z Domu do Morza!
tom
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Re: Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Post autor: tom »

Z tego co wiem kot z "Bismarcka" nazywał się Oscar.
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MacGreg
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Re: Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Post autor: MacGreg »

3. Unsinkable Sam
The most famous mascot of the British Royal Navy, Unsinkable Sam, previously known as Oscar, was the ship's cat aboard the German battleship Bismarck. When the ship was sunk in 1941, only 116 out of a crew of more than 2,200 survived — 117 if you include Sam. Sam was picked up by the destroyer HMS Cossack, which was in turn torpedoed and sunk a few months later, killing 159 of her crew. Again, Sam survived. Sam then became the ship's cat of HMS Ark Royal … which was torpedoed and sunk in November of that year. Sam was rescued once again, but after that incident, it was decided that it was time for Sam’s sailorship to come to an end.

Unsinkable Sam was given a new job as mouser-in-residence at the governor general of Gibraltar's office. He eventually returned to the U.K. and lived out his years at the Home for Sailors.
Alleged to be ship's cat Oscar/Oskar, aka Unsinkable Sam - formerly of German battleship Bismarck, then of HMS Cossack and HMS Ark Royal Bismarck
The German battleship was sunk on 27 May 1941. Of more than 2200 men on board, only 116 survived, together with Oscar, the ship's cat (or Oskar, to use the German spelling). He was picked up by the British destroyer HMS Cossack, but she too was torpedoed a few months later, on 24 October, with the loss of 159 lives. Attempts to rescue the ship failed, and she was abandoned and sank two days later. Oscar survived again, was taken to Gibraltar, and was then taken on by HMS Ark Royal. His stay there was even shorter, as the aircraft carrier was torpedoed by U-81 on 13 November, eventually capsizing and sinking only 30 miles (50 km) from Gibraltar.

Yet again Oscar was lucky — but there were no more ships for him, as it was decided that his presence was certainly not lucky! By now known as Unsinkable Sam, this great survivor among cats stayed as mouse-catcher in the Governor General of Gibraltar's office buildings until he was taken by a brave ship to Belfast, in Northern Ireland (although some reports say Plymouth). There he lived until his death in 1955, at the Home for Sailors. A portrait of him has a place of honour in the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich, on the River Thames near London.

. . . but, did Oscar really exist?

Some serious researchers of the matter believe that the tale of Oscar/Sam, as given above, while it makes a marvellous story, is what would probably today be called an 'urban myth', and is highly unlikely to have happened in that way, or even at all.

The reasons are several:
(1) None of the survivors from Bismarck remembers there being such a cat on the ship — not even the Baron, who would have been in its likely home of the wardroom.
(2) There is no photographic or documentary evidence of a cat on board (and there are plenty of surviving photos of and from Bismarck).
(3) A small animal like a cat in the sea could not have reached a rescue ship. Both of the rescue ships present (neither of which was the Cossack, incidentally) were high-sided vessels, and Bismarck's survivors, covered in oil, had to climb ropes in heavy seas to reach safety — so how could an extremely wet cat have got on board? A sailor would not have been able to reach down and pick it up, either. And no cat could have survived for long, drenched through and very cold, to be picked up later.
(4) Human survival instincts make it extremely unlikely that any sailor, German or British, as much as they liked their mascots, would have rescued an animal under the very poor conditions at the time, when all efforts were being concentrated on saving human lives.
(5) The Ark Royal part of the tale sounds similarly unlikely. On that occasion the ship sank very slowly; there was time to evacuate all survivors in an orderly way, and no one had to be rescued from wreckage. If there had been a cat alive, unless it hid itself very well, it would not have had to be in the water at all.
(6) Lastly, there seem to be two different versions of Oscar/Sam! The photo above, although copied a number of times, definitely shows a striped tabby. However, there's a painting in the British National Maritime Museum, supposedly of Oscar, that shows a 'tuxedo' (black-and-white) cat. They cannot both be correct — but is either of them? Did Oscar/Sam ever exist, or was he the figment of someone's fertile imagination?

(Many thanks to Frank Allen of the HMS Hood Association for allowing us to publish his thoughts above, in 2008.
More recently we were interested to read elsewhere that the secretary of the HMS Cossack Association, while having little doubt that A ship's cat named Oscar probably existed, also debunked the tale.)
'There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today!' - Vice Admiral Sir David Beatty
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jogi balboa
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Re: Zagadki wojenno- morskie

Post autor: jogi balboa »

Można by zrobić nowy film o Bismarcku a wątek fabularny oprzeć o historię Kota. Pod koniec filmu uratowany jako ostatni żywy na dryfującej tratwie - niczym Kate Winslet w Titanicu.
ODPOWIEDZ