"Virginia" vs "Gotland" - wasze typy

[Rakietowy Rafał]

W najnowszym MSiO przeczytałem że szwedzki "Gotland" ma odbywać ćwiczenia u brzegów USA. Celem tych cwiczeń ma być podobno wypróbowanie USS "Virgini" w akcji przeciw konwencjonalnym podwodniakom na wodach przybrzeżnych. Jak myślicie który z nich ma wieksze szanse w takiej "zabawie"? Gdyby tak Amerykanie pofatygowali sie na Bałtyk to stawiałbym na Szwedów, ale tak to mam watpliwości.
A może o to chodzi? Ściągamy teoretycznie silnego przeciwnika na "nasze podwórko" by go załatwić i uciszyć ewentualnych krytyków. Co myślicie w tym temacie?

[RyszardL]

Nie mam jeszcze najnowszego numeru i nie wiem, co to takiego ta USS Virginia?
Domyślam się jedynie, że chodzi o okręt nawodny.
Jeżeli "Gotland" jest cichy , to stawiam na niego
Pozdrawiam
Ryszard

[Gość]

Chodzi tu o atomowy szturmowy podwodniak SSN - 774 Virginia

[RyszardL]

Chodzi tu o atomowy szturmowy podwodniak SSN - 774 Virginia

To w takim razie trudno przewidzieć wynik, bo to będzie zależało też od prędkości pod woda i manewrowości.
Jakość sonaru też będzie odgrywac dużą rolę.

W sumie dziwne nieco te ćwiczenia.

[Gość]

Sory ten gość to ja "Rakietowy" Rafał

[fdt]

Nie mam jeszcze najnowszego numeru i nie wiem, co to takiego ta USS Virginia?
Domyślam się jedynie, że chodzi o okręt nawodny.
Jeżeli "Gotland" jest cichy , to stawiam na niego
Pozdrawiam
Ryszard

Nie Rysiu, Virginia nie jest okrętem nawodnym. To taki nieco uproszczony Seawolf (no może nie uproszczony ale zbudowany wg mniej skomplikowanego w warstwie założeń).







A tu

2004 - The US Navy's newest attack submarine - USS Virginia SSN-774
377 ft, 7,800 tons submerged, 32+ knots submerged



A ćwiczenia jak to ćwiczenia... Chińczyki, Hindusy i Pakisy kupują teraz sporo tego no i trzeba się podszkolić w ganianiu cichych diesli po oceanach. Kto wie, może i w Perth niedługo będą takie Virginie stacjonować .

[RyszardL]

fdt napisał

A ćwiczenia jak to ćwiczenia... Chińczyki, Hindusy i Pakisy kupują teraz sporo tego no i trzeba się podszkolić w ganianiu cichych diesli po oceanach. Kto wie, może i w Perth niedługo będą takie Virginie stacjonować .

Aaa... teraz jasne. W Perth, to czasami się je widzi, a tak na dobrą sprawę częściej w bazie tuż koło Perth, Garden Island.

I tu mam pomysł, żeby wykorzystali australijski typ "Collins" do tej zabawy w ćwiczenia. Jak je tutaj zbudowali, to określono je jako "podwodny jaz band", takie cholery były głośne.
Coś tam zrobili, żeby je wyciszyć, usprawnili programy komputerowe, uszczelnili zbiorniki z paliwem i mówią, że teraz już jest OK.

Pozdrawiam
Ryszard

[fdt]

HMAS Stirling, Fleet Base West, Garden Island
HMAS Stirling is Australia's largest Fleet Base, capable of supporting half the fleet. Also known as "Fleet Base West," it is located on the shores of Careening Bay, on the south eastern section of Garden Island, facing Cockburn Sound south of the Port of Fremantle. Part of the island is controlled by the Navy, the rest of the island has been returned to its original pristine state.

In late 2002 the Australian government agreed to allow the US military to use the HMAS Stirling naval base in Cockburn Sound on the west coast of Australia to trial its new “sea-swap” program. The plan is aimed at boosting US naval firepower in the Indian Ocean and Persian Gulf. Critics charge that the Australian Federal and State Governments are working to make Cockburn Sound a defacto base for the US navy. The plans include flying thousands of US military personnel in and out of Western Australia to meet US warships in Cockburn Sound. Under the proposal the US navy would use WA as a swap over point for the 7th fleet. Navy crew coming in and out of theatres of war would go straight to WA instead of US bases in San Diego or Hawaii.

The state government is investigating the possibility of upgrading facilities at the Australian Marine Complex in Cockburn Sound so that deep-water US aircraft carriers can use the base. It has also established a task force involving the ship repair, tourism and accommodation industries.

Having a Garden Island in Western Australia as well as in Sydney on Australia's east coast can cause some confusion. The Royal Australian Navy's two main bases for Major Fleet Units are located at Fleet Base East, Garden Island, Sydney, New South Wales and at Fleet Base West, HMAS Stirling, Garden Island, Western Australia (Near Perth).

HMAS Stirling naval base in Cockburn Sound is located 15 kilometers from Fremantle, a densely populated suburb near the state capital Perth. Garden Island is the site of Australia's first free or non-convict settlements. The island is 5 km off the mainland and is right next to one of the fastest growing residential areas in Australia, Perth.

Originally named Isle Buache by the French in 1981, Garden Island was first settled by Capt. James Stirling in 1827 who "prepared a garden and released a cow, two ewes and three goats in a area of good pasture with good water supply". Capt. Charles Fremantle arrived in 1829 but only anchored off the island to take possession of Australia's west coast. Capt. Stirling returned the same year to take up his grant of 100,000 acres plus any livestock remaining from his previous visit. He re-named the island Garden Island and the first settlement of 450 people was named Sulpher Town. Sulpher Bay and Careening Bay were important anchorage and cargo disembarkation points for ships until 1897 when Fremantle inner harbour was completed. In 1907 Peet & Co subdivided 83 blocks in Careening Bay. After WWI it became a holiday resort with wooden cottages erected in the bay.

During World War II, Garden Island was used by the army, navy and "Z" force. Careening Bay Camp (CBC) near Garden Island was also called the Special Boat School Training school for "Z" Special Operations Commandos. During WWII gin batteries were located on Garden Island and the secret unit (Z-Force) operated and trained there for their clandestine raids against the Japanese. Following the war it became a holiday resort again and the home of the RAN Reserve Fleet.

In 1966 a feasibility study was began into establishment of a naval support facility on the island, and in 1969 it was endorsed by the Federal Government. Construction of the 4.3 km causeway began in 1971 and completed in 1973. The Naval Support Facility was completed in 1978 and HMAS Stirling formally commissioned in the same year. Since then public access to the island has been restricted and those areas open to the public are only accessible by sea via private boat under curfew conditions.

Cockburn Sound is haven to Australia's naval defence capability for the Indian Ocean Region. Cockburn Sound is home to significant maritime facilities including the Australian Marine Complex's shipbuilding and Australia's Naval Forces stationed at Fleet Base West, Garden Island. More than 2500 naval personnel are based on Garden Island which is considered an environmental showpiece.

HMAS Stirling is also the Headquarters of the Australian Submarine Squadron with all submarine training being carried out in the Navy's large Submarine Systems and Training Centre and the associated seven storey Escape Training Facility on the island. Other ships based at Garden Island are the replenishment oiler HMAS Westralia, and the busy patrol boats HMAS Bunbury and HMAS Geraldton. Australian Clearance Diving Team Four is also based at HMAS Stirling. Still expanding within its existing perimeters, HMAS Stirling is considered a good example of how with careful environmental planning and research the Australian Defence Force can live in harmony with nature.

Garden Island, which has a number of important historical sites, is restricted. It is now joined to the mainland by a 4 km causeway. Access along the causeway is restricted to Naval personnel stationed at HMAS Stirling and the only access to the island for non-Navy personnel is by boat or ferry.

Australian Submarine Corporation is also located in Western Australia at HMAS STIRLING, the homeport of the Collins Class submarine fleet.

The Cockburn Sound Cluster is a Western Australian development which is attracting investment, creating jobs and giving life to a diverse range of projects. Along its 18-kilometer length south of Perth, the area supports a variety of land uses, from the major heavy industrial estates to a technology precinct. The Department of Industry and Resources has developed an integrated approach to develop industry across a broad spectrum of activities in Cockburn Sound.

The Marine Support Facility, located within the Australian Marine Complex's Shipbuilding Precinct, is the centerpiece of Western Australia's capacity for vessel repair and refit. The Marine Support Facility is equipped with extensive dry-berth support infrastructure, including Australia's largest ship-lift, which is used extensively by the Australian Navy.

Jervoise Bay, just south of Perth, is the center of a dynamic shipbuilding industry which exports high speed aluminium ferries and other vessels to customers around the world. Henderson, on Jervoise Bay, adjacent to HMAS Stirling, is one of the world's most technologically advanced shipbuilding precincts. It has the largest shiplift in Australia, which has already been used to lift Collins-class submarines for maintenance work. It is also home to Curtin University's Centre for Marine Science and Technology.

[Ksenofont]

Czytaliście "Ostatni Brzeg" Neville'a Shute'a?
Rzecz się dzieje właśnie w Australii, na amerykańskim OP USS Swordfish
Można obejrzeć i film: z Gregorym Peckiem i Avą Gardner:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0053137/
X

[fdt]

I tu mam pomysł, żeby wykorzystali australijski typ "Collins" do tej zabawy w ćwiczenia. Jak je tutaj zbudowali, to określono je jako "podwodny jaz band", takie cholery były głośne.
Coś tam zrobili, żeby je wyciszyć, usprawnili programy komputerowe, uszczelnili zbiorniki z paliwem i mówią, że teraz już jest OK.

Pozdrawiam
Ryszard

Rysiu, to jankesi na pewno już ćwiczyli z kangurami... ale teraz postanowili spróbować z oryginałem a nie z jego kopią.

The Development of the Collins Class
The Collins-class development began in 1981, when the RAN initiated a program to specify and procure a replacement for its aging predecessors. A contract with the Australian Submarine Corporation for the design and construction of six submarines, with associated services, was awarded in June 1987. The first of the class, HMAS Collins, was laid down in February 1990 and commissioned in July 1996. She was the first submarine ever built in Australia and the 18th to have entered service with the RAN since 1914. HMAS Farncomb, the second of the Collins class, was commissioned in January 1998, with the third, Waller, due to be commissioned mid-1999. The follow-on submarines, Dechaineux, Sheean, and Rankin, are scheduled for delivery in late 1999, 2000, and 2001, respectively.

The Collins-class boats were among the first to be totally designed using computer-aided techniques. Highly automated systems control running machinery, course, speed, depth, and trim, which minimizes manning requirements. The ships require a crew of 45 (eight officers and 37 sailors), compared to an Oberon crew of 64. The basic design is of Swedish origin, and industrial organizations from nine countries have been involved in the development. Nonetheless, 70 percent of the first ship’s and almost 100 percent of the follow-on ships’ production has been done in Australia. The main assembly site is near Adelaide, South Australia. Overall characteristics are listed here:


Length: 77.8 meters (255 feet)

Diameter: 7.8 meters (25 feet)

Draft: 6.8 meters (22 feet)

Displacement: 3,350 tons (submerged)
3,050 tons (surfaced)

Propulsion: Diesel electric; 3 Hedemora VB210 18 cylinder diesels, with generators producing 1,400 kW each; one water-cooled, DC shunt, double-armature motor rated at 5,250 kW; single shaft

Diving Depth In excess of 180 meters (590 feet)

Speed: In excess of 20 knots (submerged)
In excess of 10 knots (surfaced or snorkeling)

Range: In excess of 9,000 nautical miles

Crew: 45 (8 officers and 37 sailors)

Weapons: 6 forward tubes for Mk 48 wire-guided torpedoes and submarine-launched Harpoon missile

[Bartosz Piotrowski]

I tu mam pomysł, żeby wykorzystali australijski typ "Collins" do tej zabawy w ćwiczenia. Jak je tutaj zbudowali, to określono je jako "podwodny jaz band", takie cholery były głośne.

Czesc !

Wada konstrukcyjna okretu czy bledy podczas budowy byly powodem nadmiernej glosnosci ?

Pozdrawiam
Bartek

[RyszardL]

FDT napisał

Rysiu, to jankesi na pewno już ćwiczyli z kangurami...

Już je próbowali i wtedy się okazało, że jest do niczego.

Bartosz napisał

Wada konstrukcyjna okretu czy bledy podczas budowy byly powodem nadmiernej glosnosci ?

Nie, nie wada konstrukcyjna tylko wykonanie. Australijczycy uparli się zbudować sami te okręty chcąc zdobyć doświadczenie no i nie wyszło.
Dlatego potem poprawki na już zbudowanych jednostkach. Jeżeli dobrze sobie przypominam, to koszt ich usunięcia zamykał się kwotą około 750 mln dolarów. Drobiazg ?!

Pozdrawiam
Ryszard

[Rakietowy Rafał]

A swoją drogą to musi być dla załogi "Gotland" straszny wstyd robić za ładunek. Czy to nie jest troche dziwne? Czy ten podwodniak nie dałby rady sam dopłynać na miejsce? To przecież dla załogi i okrętu taki rejs byłby na pewno niezłym doświadczeniem. Co jest z tymi wspołczesnymi podwodniakami? Podobno i RPA ma przerzucić swoje okręty typu (zdaje się) 209/1400: S-101, S-102 i pewnie też ten w budowie, jako ładunek.

[crolick]

A swoją drogą to musi być dla załogi "Gotland" straszny wstyd robić za ładunek. Czy to nie jest troche dziwne? Czy ten podwodniak nie dałby rady sam dopłynać na miejsce? To przecież dla załogi i okrętu taki rejs byłby na pewno niezłym doświadczeniem. Co jest z tymi wspołczesnymi podwodniakami? Podobno i RPA ma przerzucić swoje okręty typu (zdaje się) 209/1400: S-101, S-102 i pewnie też ten w budowie, jako ładunek.

Nie!
Uno pewnie tak jest taniej
Secundo po co Szwedom znajomosc Atlantyku?! Oni maja dobrze nawigowac na Baltyku a nie, gdzies daleko od domu. Szwedzi nie maja ambicji ratowania swiata, wiec ograniczaja sie do wlasnych wybrzezy...

[Darth Stalin]

Tak samo płynęły "Kilo" do Iranu i do Chin